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Post by Kristian on Feb 2, 2018 15:53:02 GMT
Hmmm.... So, I'm reading through my 5e books as just learned that CR is different from 3rd (see p 82 of the 5e DMG).
In 3e, a goblin was CR¼ - so 4 of these made for a reasonable challenge for four lvl 1 characters (i.e. nothing too taxing, but a suitable encounter).
In 5e, goblins are still CR¼ ...but you now calculate the encounter difficulty by their XP value (which is 50xp) ...so four goblins would actually be 200xp (which seems straight forward enough).
However, if using more than one creature (like the 4 goblins in this example) you need to factor in the 'encounter multiplier' ...so in this case its a 'x2' multiplier for 3 to 6 creatures.
This gives a total difficulty of 400xp - which is now considered a 'deadly' encounter for four lvl 1 characters.
So, have you guys took this into account in your games? as it appears that hordes of creatures (which we often face) are considered to be far more dangerous than before. Or am I reading it wrong (or do you just ignore the CR bollox and wing it).
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gilbo
2019 Group
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Post by gilbo on Feb 2, 2018 17:06:32 GMT
I have never found the XP rules for multiple creatures to be very good. In 3.5 I think there ws a multiplier which meant you got less than you would if you just multiplied the XP per creature by the number. I actually think that tha new system makes more sense - fighting 4 goblins at once is obviously harder than fighting them one at a time.
I practice I use the following system:
Add up the xp values of the monsters. Divide by the number of players. Add some more if there were traps or puzzles. Add a bit more if they did some quest related stuff. Think - is that about right? Make up a number that seems about right. Give them that.
Basically wing it.
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Post by Kristian on Feb 2, 2018 17:16:51 GMT
I thought as much , but I'm glad I spotted this change as I would have otherwise thought that 8 kobolds would have been a suitable 1st room encounter (i.e. in 3e terms it's a CR1 encounter) ...but in 5e it's considered 'deadly' for 5 players ...and probably wouldn't have been much fun if half the party died after opening the front door
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Post by Kristian on Feb 2, 2018 20:08:06 GMT
Sorry, I just realised we're talking about different things (or at least I think we are). I meant the XP rating is now used to get a kind of CR for the encounter.
Take ghouls for example they are a CR1 creature in both systems. But...
In 3e one ghoul = CR 1, and two ghouls = CR2
In 5e, 1 ghoul = 200xp (i.e. a 'medium' difficulty encounter for for four lvl 1 PCs), and two ghouls = 600xp (i.e. a 'medium' encounter for four level 3 PCs).
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Post by Kristian on Feb 2, 2018 20:13:27 GMT
Or take orcs (CR ½ in both systems):
In 3E 2 orcs = CR1 4 orcs = CR2 8 orcs = CR4 12 orcs = CR6 (ish)
In 5e 2 orcs = 300XP (so a 'hard' encounter for lvl 1 PCs) 4 orcs = 800XP (so a 'deadly' encounter for lvl2 PCs) 8 orcs = 2000xp (so either a 'deadly' encounter for lvl 4 PCs - or a 'medium' encounter for lvl 5 PC's) 12 orcs = 3600xp (so a 'medium' encounter for lvl 8 PCs)
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gilbo
2019 Group
Posts: 1,446
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Post by gilbo on Feb 2, 2018 21:54:58 GMT
I think we are talking about the same thing. I believe there was a bit in the 3.5 DMG about this which adjusted for numbers. It did say, quite rightly, that the system doesn't really work for large numbers of weak creatures. 12 orcs may be a challenge for a third level party but a fifth level wizard could take most of them out with a fireball.
It is worth noting however, which is more to the point of your original question, that 5e monsters are generally a bit tougher than their 3e counterparts. An orc, for example in 3e had 5HP, whilst in 5e its 15HP. Ghoul was 13HP, now 22HP. The game is supposedly designed so that monsters still provide a challenge even at higher levels. I have found it easier to find challenging encounters from the 5e monster manual than when we were doing 3.5. I used to have to stat up loads of monsters with extra class levels, but now it's much better I think.
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Post by Kristian on Feb 2, 2018 23:10:10 GMT
So, as a baseline, the 5e method works better. Gotcha! (it does seem more detailed ...what with the 'easy' to 'deadly' scale, and all that ...i just found it a bit weird seeing as how 1 ghoul was effectively CR1, and two were more like CR3). Oh and I mentioned ghouls because that's what we faced in my Saturday group (i.e. two lvl 1 PCs and one lvl 2PCs versus 2 ghouls ...and it did not go well ).
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