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Post by zaphodbeebledoc on Apr 12, 2018 23:30:59 GMT
Question about instinctive spells.
I have the Fire sphere at 5 at the mo. After casting the same specific spell 5 times, I can spend an XP and make it instinctive.
What happens if I increase the Fire sphere? Would it remain instinctive?
If a spell becomes instinctive, I would assume it remains instinctive...
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Post by zaphodbeebledoc on Apr 12, 2018 23:58:35 GMT
The Amount of Material line of the difficulty factor table.
When is this used? I can't figure out when I would use this line rather than the Area of Effect line.
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 13, 2018 13:15:23 GMT
Tone: will sort out your answers when I get in tonight.
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 13, 2018 14:43:06 GMT
And Dave: can you post here the text I scrawled in your rules about making magic items? - cheers!
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Post by zaphodbeebledoc on Apr 13, 2018 21:46:15 GMT
Also, will it make any difference if the item I am, say giving magical fire to, is in some way related to fire? E.g, ash. could that give me a points back on the casting?
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Post by zaphodbeebledoc on Apr 14, 2018 0:11:21 GMT
More questions...
Say I have brought up my utility Fire spells. One of which is warmth on cloaks, and I've used up all the utility spells, I'm assuming I can cast the utility again. But what will happen to the warmth on the cloaks? Can I have more than ome set of utility on the go at any one time?
Can two or more spheres be combined in one spell?
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 14, 2018 12:23:51 GMT
OK: spells last as long as the relevant difficulty factor you selected when you cast it: so - your spell can last a lot longer than the amount of time you keep your sphere raised for. So - you could cast a warmth spell on a set of cloaks and as long as you had paid the cost for - say - "all day" then those cloaks would be warm all day, regardless of whether your fire sphere went down after you cast it.
The amount of material is for when you want to affect things not people or creatures: like when Kris made the trees stand up and walk to block the towns gates? - that's when he used the amount of material line.
And yes - if you buy a spell as instinctive then you have paid XP for: anything a player ever spends XP on is damn well permanent: it won't matter if you raise the sphere - that spell will always count as instinctive.
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 14, 2018 15:22:11 GMT
I've edited and updated the difficulty factors table based on the rulings recently made: main changes are: 1 There are separate rows for preparation and duration 2 There is now a 7th columns called "batshit" 3 Just for Dave in the aforementioned batshit column there is an area of effect of 1km to 10km 4 Just for Steve there is also a new damage number in the batshit column of 7d100 - and an auto-crit. Enjoy! www.bryan-talbot.com/images/art/stuff/Ragnarok-v5-table.pdf
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Post by pericles on Apr 15, 2018 12:08:40 GMT
I have not kept up with the board so some the the stuff here may already be covered. I freely admit some of issues raised min max the system and what has been written. Please do not shoot the messanger some of the stuff is deliberately provocative.
Rules as Written: Magic items
Items can be enchanted as follows: • You need both the spheres of magic / sorcery and the sphere of the effect you are putting into the item • The highest-level effect you can put into an item is the level of your magic sphere – and you cannot put an effect onto an item at a level higher than your level in the “effect” sphere. • Mages can collaborate and share mana as detailed above when enchanting an item • The final cost – which is shareable by both mages - is: o Mana: 3 times the cost of the sphere level for the active effect o XP: the level of the active effect sphere.
So a mage with fire sphere 6 and magic sphere 4 can enchant a ring with a maximum fire level 4 effect: that would cost 12 mana and 4 XP.
Enchanting an item is never an instant process. The first time you try and create an item with an enchantment on it you will need to experiment and prototype for 10 hours minus your sphere level. The first casting will also always take 10 hours minus your sphere level. Creating a second item with the same enchantment can be quicker: if you spend an XP to make the spell of “create a magic item with this specific enchantment on it” an instinctive spell, then the next time you cast it, it takes 30 minutes: the time after, 20 minutes and each time after that 10 minutes.
When you enchant an item you make it able to cast a specific spell which costs you zero mana, usable with any limits you specify at the time of creation. Your level in the magic sphere is the number of qualifiers you can add on to how it is used. At level 4 you could have 4 different qualifiers – for example: 1. Only usable by (named list of people) 2. User or creator can control (specific named aspect of spell - such as turning it off or on) 3. Automatically turns on when (named situation arises) 4. Any of the above rules with different specifics, or your own rule, or any other rule you can think of.
The exact nature of the spell that the item casts will then be written down, as well as the details of the qualifiers you place on it, and a copy given to the GM.
Additional Brumguvnor Scrawlings
If difficulty factors are zero then the mana cost is just the cost of raising the spheres. Minimum XP cost = 1.
Comments on magic item creation.
There are two major differences between what is written on magic items and what we have played after the first few sessions.
First Change
The rules allow for two types of permanence. • A permanent spell i.e. a spell with a permanent duration and is cast once only (using the active sphere of magic). • An item with a spell burned into it (using the active sphere and magic sphere) which can then be cast, ever after, from the item mana free.
During play the two separate concepts have been merged such that an item has a permanent spell burned into it.
Second change
The items created i.e. items with a magic spell burn into them are meta magic items in the sense they create what would by most standards be classed as magic items. The meta magic facet of items appears to have been quashed.
I say appears to have been quashed as the magic healing amulet of our comatose wiccan devotee had to be passed to other characters and worn to take effect.
In the rules as written, an item having a permanent regeneration spell burned in can cast permanent regeneration on a different creature each round creating an army of regenerating creatures.
My preferred rule options
Restore the rules as written where items cast spells having variable durations. Extend the duration column giving spells longer life without making them permanent.
Restoring the rules to as written will make magic item creation easier. Some spells e.g. regeneration are more useful as a spell burn into an item. • A permanent regeneration spell burn an item kicks in when you are hit until you are healed without conscious thought. • A ten minute regeneration effect burnt into an item will need to be cast from the item prior to combat or as an action within combat. • A permanent spell cast on a creature can be attacked and dispelled. Without an item to create the effect the spell will need recasting using standard casting rules.
Eliminating permanent durations prevents the meta-magic element getting out of control.
What is the most powerful item you can create for 1XP
A 1XP item can be created by raising 1 sphere at level 1 and casting a zero sum difficulty spell. The options reducing difficulty are Distance yourself -1, Preparation over 1 hour -3 and sixteen Mana -5. I don’t think anyone has sufficient mana for a -6 mana based cost. If characters combine mana they can boost the mana based reduction further.
The residual difficulty for the remaining spell options is 3 = 9 (Dist = -1, Prep = -3, Mana = -5) minus 6 (permanent duration (under current practice)).
What is the most powerful permanent spell you can create?
Within the rules as written (not as practiced) the bonuses remain as above and you can cast upto your sphere difficulty. Total difficulty = Sphere + 2 (Prep = 3, Mana = 5, Duration -6). The XP cost has not been given in the rules for permanent spells only permanent items but blagging the Brumguvnor scrawlings it would be 1XP.
It should be noted that all of daily effects use the above formula with duration limited to a single day. Total difficulty = Sphere + Duration (-5) Prep (1 to 3) + Mana = (0 to 5). Assuming Sphere 6, 10 min preparation and 2 mana for +2 difficulty, Total difficulty = 5.
Extending the duration table to eliminate permanent magic spells will prevent abuse of meta magic items.
Our most beneficent and generous GM has demonstrated that spells are easily taken down by almost all magic users we have encountered and I feel the extra XP cost is unfair.
Spell quash magic: Sphere Magic or other nullifying effect; Dist Medium 100m (2); Area one person (spell) (1); Duration instant (1); Damage level variable. Total sphere = 4 + damage level roughly equivalent to arch mage level in Magic sphere.
Item quash magic: Sling bullet pouch creates a touch spell on a sling bullet: Dist Touch (0); Area one person (spell) (1); Duration permanent (6); Damage level variable. Total sphere to create = 7 + damage level roughly equivalent to competent mage level in Magic sphere with mana to burn. Sphere to use anyone.
Creating trouble for Colin Creavy
Colin has a rather nice magical tattoo created and approved of with GM participation during creation.
The original concept was a permanent magical spell (not item) based on the Abjurer second level ability Arcane Ward extended to affect all allies within a 3meter radius. At creation the tattoo passed as a permanent magical spell which could affect up to sphere allies in a 3m radius.
During play or on the forum a rule clarification made all permanent magical effects magical items. The benefit to Colin was a permanent spell became a permanent item. The second rule clarification prevented other characters from using Colin’s tattoo to cast a permanent magic spell on themselves. The net benefit enabled Colin to refresh his protections after the protection effect was targeted by a magic drain.
Re-scripting the tattoo using the rules as written.
Warning: This is a min max gamed concept.
Distance Self (-1); Preparation over 1 hour (-3); Area of effect Personal plus one round concentration (0); Amount of material not applicable (0) Mana burn 16 (-5). Sum of Damage and duration = 9 (These will be controlled as optional effects).
During play a Colin or another user will need to touch the tattoo to use it as an item to cast the spell burnt into the tattoo on themselves. 1. Duration Permanent (6) Null Harmful Effects 4d10 (3) 2. Duration Long Day (5) Null Harmful Effects 5d12 (4) 3. Duration Medium upto 1 hour (4) Null Harmful Effects 6d20 (5) 4. Duration Short upto 10 min (3) Null Harmful Effects 7d100 (6) 5. Allies in Area up to 3 Meters (3-0 = 3) Duration up to 1 min (2) Null harmful effects 5d12 (4)
The options are designed to protect Colin with a bit of nod towards party co-operation in option 5.
Re-scripting of the tattoo
Distance Self (-1); Preparation over 1 hour (-3); Area of effect Personal plus one round concentration (0); Amount of material not applicable (0) Mana burn 16 (-5). Sum of Damage and duration = 9 (These will be controlled as optional effects).
1. Duration 1 week (6) Null Harmful Mundane effects 4d10 (3) 2. Duration 1 week (6) Null Harmful Magical effects 4d10 (3) 3. Allies in Area up to 3 Meters (3-0 = 3) Duration up to 1 min (2) Null Harmful Mundane effects 5d12 (4) 4. Distance Touch (0 - -1 = 1) Area One person or item touched (1-0 = 1) Duration up to 1 hour (4) Null Harmful Mundane Effects 4d10 (3) 5. Distance Touch (0 - -1 = 1) Area One person or item touched (1-0 = 1) Duration up to 1 hour (4) Null Harmful Magical Effects 4d10 (3)
The options are more balanced towards co-operative play as Colin can send protected agents on 1 hour missions. Splitting the arcane ward between Mundane and Magical damage and extending the Duration difficulty column severely reduces the tattoo’s power. I could probably tweak the options for better effect and more mileage out of the tattoo.
Scripting the tattoo (as is) under current interpretation of rules
Distance Self (-1); Preparation over 1 hour (-3); Area of effect Personal plus one round concentration (0); Amount of material not applicable (0) Mana burn 16 (-5). Duration permanent (6) Up to Sphere Allies in Area up to 3 Meters (3) Null Harmful Mundane effects 5d12 (4). Require Sphere 4 and 12 XP. A retrospective application of this will put Colin in XP deficit.
1. Magical Damage rather than mundane 2. Each Ally is an option
Re-scripting the tattoo to better effect
Warning slightly min maxed: The soak effect is permanent on a character or creature until dispelled by some method. The re-scripting is also more powerful than I originally envisaged.
Preparation over 1 hour (-3); Mana burn 16 (-5); Distance Short up to 10 Meters (1); Area of effect 1 person (1); Amount of material not applicable (0). Duration permanent (6); Effect Null Harmful Mundane effects 5d12 (4). Require Sphere 4 and 12 XP.
1. Magical Damage rather than mundane 2. Dispell
Re-scripting the tattoo with an eye to game balance
Assumes a new duration of 1 week at level 6 and intermediate steps to level 10 Permanent with direct aid from deity. Assumes a difference between Item and spell creation i.e. An item is an object with a spell burnt into it which is cast mana free there after.
Preparation over 1 hour (-3); Mana burn 16 (-5); Distance Short up to 10 Meters (1); Area of effect 1 person (1); Amount of material not applicable (0). Duration 1 week (6); Effect Null Harmful Mundane effects 5d12 (4). Require Sphere 4 and 12 XP.
1. Magical Damage rather than mundane 2. Dispell
Delays on Spells
All spells are cast with options. You do not need an additional difficulty factor for delays as the delay or trigger can be specified as an option providing the delay or trigger occurs before the end of the duration of the spell.
Spells that use multiple Spheres
Colin Creavy has been doing this from the start. I argued that a sphere has a perceptual element linked with it but was forced to create a second sphere of perception so I could target Null sphere effects on unseen and otherwise perceived effects. All I have needed is to have both spheres active (not necessarily at the same level) when creating the effect I desire.
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 15, 2018 20:32:46 GMT
OK - first answer: permanent without an XP being spent is only a day long: as soon as any XP is spent is when an item becomes permanent.
The rest may take some time...
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 17, 2018 10:56:54 GMT
dude - could you print these out and bring it with you on Thursday? - I think it will probably be easier and quicker to answer them all in person... - and I will write down all the answers that have an impact on everyone (which is likely to be all of them) and revise the rules accordingly.
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Post by pericles on Apr 17, 2018 16:55:51 GMT
dude - could you print these out and bring it with you on Thursday? - I think it will probably be easier and quicker to answer them all in person... - and I will write down all the answers that have an impact on everyone (which is likely to be all of them) and revise the rules accordingly. OK.
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Post by Kristian on Apr 26, 2018 23:14:05 GMT
Regarding the DC of saving throws...
Spell saves in regular D&D are 8 + prof. bonus + relevant stat.
So, for us should it be 8 + prof bonus + magic sphere (i.e. NOT the level you are casting at, but the level of your sphere itself). So, for a lvl 5 character with a 'fire' sphere of 6 that would be 8+3+6 = 17 (i.e. the equivalent of a 5th lvl mage with an INT of 22).
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Post by brumguvnor on Apr 27, 2018 10:42:45 GMT
Kris: I like that: we need a definitive decision on when you make a roll to attack and when the target makes a saving throw instead: any thoughts? (and that "any thoughts" is to the whole table - I am not just handing out homework assignments to Kris there!)
And - if people can write up the decisions made last night on how the difficulty factors table power levels now work with ref to ability scores, AC, HP, skills and so on I'd be grateful, and I will then put them into the new version of the rules.
And, getting serious for a second - can I say how FECKING refreshing it is to be on a table with such mature, laid back players? - I turned round last night and nerfed beyond belief a lot of your powers: cutting effectiveness pretty much in half, and the response was universally "well, yeah - that makes sense - it was pretty over the top there, this works better". Damn well done the lot of ya!
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Post by Kristian on Apr 27, 2018 13:59:48 GMT
Damn well done the lot of ya! Inspiration for everyone...
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