gilbo
2019 Group
Posts: 1,446
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Post by gilbo on Jan 11, 2019 22:50:39 GMT
I am now thinking I like the look of Arcane Trickster more. I think it would be more fun than the Eldritch Knight or the Artificer.
In Kris's defence, I still think he should be allowed a re-skinned paladin. I reckon it fits well with the concept.
If you want to limit healing - be aware that cure wounds is on the bard spell list and they also have a lot of healing boosts. And now that you can spend hit dice in a short rest it is not always a massive issue - gone are the days when every party HAD to have a cleric.
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Post by Kristian on Jan 12, 2019 11:20:12 GMT
Yeah, I'm going to assume that bard (and probably ranger too) are no-go classes.
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 12, 2019 11:29:18 GMT
Nah: I’d say bard and ranger are fine: they don’t serve other masters explicitly...
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Post by pericles on Jan 13, 2019 14:11:05 GMT
I don't think it has to be 'god given' in 5e any more. From the PHB: Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god.And, as I say, I was gonna re-skin everything so it looks different. For example ...for 'lay on hands' he just produces some kind of healing elixir naturally (maybe as a by-product) that fills in an internal cansister* that he can offer to folks (or pour on their woumds) to offer releif. Similarily, for divine smite I'd be happy to change the type of damage (i.e from 'radiant' to 'lightning' for example ...and have it as some kind of electrical discharge). But if you dislike it, I can easily play a fighter or similar with a similar set of 'protect the meat people' morals. *so it can only be so full i.e. 5hp at lvl 1
I do not have access to my books just the internet. Looking at the web a Paladin channels their power by adherence to an Oath rather than a Deity or Ideal. A single Oath bound Paladin to the Archmage would be worrying. A cadre of Oath bound Paladins enforcing the rule of the Archmage would be terrifying.
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Post by pericles on Jan 13, 2019 14:34:02 GMT
If you want to limit healing - be aware that cure wounds is on the bard spell list and they also have a lot of healing boosts. And now that you can spend hit dice in a short rest it is not always a massive issue - gone are the days when every party HAD to have a cleric.
Again with limited access to books. The main HP healing mechanic has changed to short and long rests. Healing word or Cure Wounds at first level will revive someone in the middle of Death saves. The main healing mechanic for poison disease and other conditions remains spells. At a minimum we need Lesser restoration at 2nd level. Bard healing buffs are naff. If someone chooses to spend at least one hit die during a short rest the Bard song of rest will add an additional d6 HP. Bard healing spells are limited at lower levels but do include the aforementioned Healing word and Lesser restoration. Once a Bard hits 6th level and they have taken the College of lore a Bard can add some Clerical healing spells. The next tranche of healing is at 9th level.
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 13, 2019 14:42:09 GMT
Initial reaction to reading this: nah - that's just... Second reaction: hang on one minute there... - are you saying what I think you are saying? - that somehow they are in effect Paladins of the Archmage?! - that they are in fact Paladins of the Oath - and that oath is "loyalty to the Clan and the Archmage"? Hmmm - Kristian - if you can write up how that would work, you can take it: decide what powers from the 3 oaths in the PHB (and whatever weird stuff you can dig up online) and mix and match to suit. What I am saying is: you can take powers from any Oath Paladin in any official published D&D 5 source, and mix them up to create your own "Clan Oath" paladin as long as you: a) write it up in advance - or at least levels 1 to 3 - before the game starts, and: b) accept that you have a higher "spell deficit" to everyone else in the party, because of the amount of power and magic that has been invested in you to get you to this level 1 starting point. I am thinking that you will take - say - level 1 stuff from the vengeance one and then say level 2 stuff from devotion: I think breaking it down into any smaller chunks would be too much of a nightmare. What's "spell deficit" I hear you ask? - glad you brought it up! It's the single most significant factor in deciding your status in the clan, that's all! - officially it should be called your "spell contribution total" - as it is the sum total of all levels of spells that you are responsible for having been cast into the archmages ring. So for example, it takes roughly 50 levels of spells to raise you to this age: that's your contribution to the construction and maintenance of HQ, all of the food and water you've consumed, the resources spent on your training. For all standard characters you start at minus 50 spell levels: that is to say you owe the clan 50 levels of spells before you are actually contributing positively to the clan. The point at which you go positive is the date at which you stop being a cadet and graduate to being a squire: when you get to a total of positive 50 spell levels cast into the archmages ring (for a cumulative total of 100) is when you graduate from squire to companion. The starting spell deficit for an Oath Paladin though is 60, not 50, due to the extra costs and resources in training them - and in creating the oath with all of the magical power that flows from the Archmages ring to the Paladin. I am NOT going to charge paladins for the spells they cast in missions: that is a legitimate cost of doing business: however - it also means that paladins cannot cast spells into the ring in downtime between missions to lower their deficit in the most logical way because they would be giving back power they had already been given: they will have to resort to the time-honoured technique of subduing magical monsters and getting a slave collar onto them, or coming to a contractual agreement with a sentient magic user for defined service for a set time. And if you think about it - if you have a monster spell-caster coerced into casting every spell they can cast every day into the Ring then that will add up quickly. Even a contractual arrangement for a sorcerer to come over and cast a total of 4 levels of spells into it for a few days will quickly add up. Also in the game the Clan is the foremost seller of magical items - it is their core unique thing they can do better, cheaper and easier than anyone else. A lot of their wealth comes selling these items, but wherever possible they want payment in things apart from "mere" gold... - favours, arrangements and services that would be almost impossible to get unless someone powerful owed you a favour. This is how the wyvern riders were created: a clan member made a pact with an orc warleader in the orklands for 20 wyvern eggs and some trained handlers in exchange for a magic sword. The sword was extremely powerful of course - but no one apart from one caste of orcs had ever before managed to tame and ride wyverns, and now the clan has it's own Wyvern Corp to backup and help the airships. And - sorry to Kris if this is what you were actually trying to convey and I wasn't getting it!
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 14, 2019 8:48:06 GMT
also - I am loving the idea of the Clan Oath Paladin's different abilities being explained by being various enhancements and additions to the basic warforged body - very cyberpunk feel!
We might need a different name for the class though, what with the associations that the word "Paladin" brings to mind. What's another word for a relentless, committed and dedicated servant of the Clan?
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 14, 2019 15:08:34 GMT
also: I am fascinated to see how you will reskin all of the various paladin abilities: so far I think you've mentioned: - healing people and laying on of hands by injecting them with small amounts of healing potion that you generate within your body - doing the additional smite damage by electrocuting them, due to capacitors in your body discharging
What else you got?
Also - I am changing my mind about charging you extra for your "spell deficit" - you will start on -50 like everyone else: also - you have already been granted your power for spells through your connection to the archmage's ring... - so paying a spell back into the ring during downtime is actually a valid way of paying down your spell deficit.
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Post by Kristian on Jan 14, 2019 19:24:54 GMT
also - I am loving the idea of the Clan Oath Paladin's different abilities being explained by being various enhancements and additions to the basic warforged body - very cyberpunk feel! We might need a different name for the class though, what with the associations that the word "Paladin" brings to mind. What's another word for a relentless, committed and dedicated servant of the Clan? Oathsworn?
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 15, 2019 8:28:13 GMT
oathsworn? - sold to the geek at the back!
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Post by zaphodbeebledoc on Jan 15, 2019 11:42:40 GMT
I like the idea of a warforged ranger.
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 15, 2019 12:30:17 GMT
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 15, 2019 13:27:39 GMT
Ok... so now I am thinking of creating a specific oathsworn class that can take lots of different stuff from different classes, and explain it all as built in things like Kris is doing...
Problem would be balance of course, but it’s an intriguing idea...
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Post by pericles on Jan 15, 2019 18:01:26 GMT
None of this is supposed to be taken seriously
Throwing caution to the wind and embracing magical technology: The six million gold coin warforged. Every spell can be represented via a rune or other magic item. Wands refresh every day. We can build warlocks. Built warlocks could be upgraded in specialised workshops. Building a master spell or switch into the items embedded in the character (not necessarily warforged) ensures the loyalty of the warlock force. Prosthetics could be used as rewards for loyal soldiers maimed in heroic defence of the clan. Rumours exist of the ultimate Cyber Mage! Ultimately is the artefact as powerful as the Dark Lens in the Dark Sun setting and can the Archmage create Templars? On a totally different track of thought I believe there are four sources of magic: Arcane, Divine, Psionic, and Primal. Psionic is dead leaving only Divine magic inextricably linked to a guiding intelligence. It follows that Druids are not necessarily under the thumb of a particular circle and has wide latitude to do as they wish.
Is there a circle of malcontent druids operating under the protectorate of the Clan?
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Post by brumguvnor on Jan 15, 2019 18:41:29 GMT
maybe as a prestige class...
And the Circle of Druids of the Great Forest is an ally yes - but a fully independent power in their own right.
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