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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 18, 2016 16:23:07 GMT
Hi all: we had a really good chat last night about how my new game would work - because there just doesn't seem to be a magic system out there that is suitable for what I want to run...
So: I am kicking off this thread to flesh out our thoughts so far on the magic system we will try and create and all of the background to the game.
Point one: let's create a magic system that is then simply added on top of an existing system and replaces it's system. Why? - because you are going to be dropped into a world of hurt - check out the name of the campaign: Ragnarok is NOT fecking around. It will involve high levels of magic and will be quite free form, so that you have levels of expertise in specific areas of magic and not a bland old list of spells. These "areas of magic" will be anything you can conceptualise as an "element" or a concept, or a sphere of magic (like how it is done in the White Wolf Mage game)
So: we are thinking - take Savage Worlds and replace it's magic system with ours.
Game background: I mentioned this on Facebook but I know we don't all use it. The game starts with you all having the absolute worst week of your life: on Monday you get sacked and a claim of physical harrasment is filed against you by your boss; on Tuesday you come home to your significant other shagging someone in your own bed: in the resulting argument the police are called and a restraining order is taken out against you, forbidding you from going home; on Wednesday your bank account is hacked and emptied - and then fecking frozen by the FBI in their investigation; on Thursday you have a car accident and are quite badly hurt, and end up in hospital and what's more your phone is knackered and all of your saved phone numbers are on it, or in the house you can no longer access.... - or even afford to get to.
At this point a Being appears and asks if you would like to work for her, and she will heal you and help you... - do you agree to hear her out? (of course you bloody do or there'd be no game!)
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 18, 2016 16:30:15 GMT
So: the magic system is this:
You get 100 points to split between: - buying levels in your spheres of magic; - your mana pool - how much magical energy you can throw around - how much mana you regenerate each day. (you can decide what time of day your replenishment kicks in: keeping track of it on an hourly basis seems like too much hard work)
Andy also came up with the idea of some kind of ritual you could perform to regain mana, which I think is an excellent idea. At first I thought I would try and include it in the initial 100 points, but on second thoughts I think I am just going to say: "describe your ritual and attempt to convince me on how many mana it gives you."
There's lots of examples: you could: - meditate for an hour and get 12 back (no risk - but it is a long time to be out of combat) - harm yourself to make blood magic kick in: perhaps 1 point of mana for each hit point lost or some such - with the obvious risk of: you are causing yourself actual damage! - making a sacrifice - with the more significant the creature being sacrificed meaning more power coming back.
These rituals could add a lot of atmosphere to the game, so I will try and make whatever you come up with a general principle that guides how your magic works, so it can be improved on with XP, but so that trying something radically different will be possible - but expensive to purchase. Choose wisely young padawan!
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 18, 2016 16:39:29 GMT
We still need to work out how much levels in magic spheres cost to buy - and also precisely what those levels let you do. At the moment the current idea is: Power level
| Character points cost to buy | Notes | 1 | 2 | Power levels cost 2 to buy the first level; after that the cost to buy a level is the cost of the new level | 2
| 4 | Apprentice
| 3 | 7 | Journeyman
| 4 | 11 | Competent mage
| 5 | 16 | Renowned mage
| 6 | 22 | Very strong - and at creation you can only buy 1 sphere at 6
| 7 | 29 | Strongest human mage ever
| 8 | 37 | Demigod | 9 | 46 |
| 10 | 56 | Godlike |
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 18, 2016 16:43:13 GMT
These are most definitely initial thoughts only - and we have not yet decided exactly what these power levels will allow you to do.
One thing I think we did decide: power level 1 is useful cantrips - but not able to deal damage: hurting someone requires at least level 2. One change from last night is making the initial purchase cost 2 and not 1: Dave's idea of making the cost per level into the square of the level was too harsh even for me: these point costs are what they would cost to buy them at character creation time: after that if you want to spend XPs to go up a level in power then it will cost the same as this table; so - if you have level 5 it will cost the difference to go up; that is 6 points.
Also: all of you as a group will be about as powerful as the character in the book was all by himself: he was basically a level 7 in 4 spheres and a level 4 in another: absolutely fecking NAILS!
And no - I'm not going to tell you what spheres he took, or even what the name of the books are as it will give far too much away!
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 19, 2016 11:15:58 GMT
You know - something else that is annoying when you think about it is the variability of magical effects, especially with ref to damage: I mean assuming you're not injured, and there's no environmental effects acting against you and there's no magical effects acting against you, why should the amount of damage from a fireball vary? Why one day does it roast an entire warband of orcs and the next day only slightly singe their hair?
I'm looking at power levels now and thinking it might be more narratively elegant to simply state what type of being it is possible to kill at each power level instead of specifying dice damage - and this could inform too what it is possible to do with the utility effects: so - for example if you are able to kill a man at level 4 in one combat turn then that tells you about the other effects: if you can throw enough conjured stone to kill him then you can definitely levitate him (at least enough to pick him up and smash him down again in one turn) - and so you could definitely levitate the same amount as a flight spell (but perhaps you need level 5 for true, fast and controlled flight as opposed to simple go up and down style levitation) - if you had control of air, you could create a big enough vacuum to kill him - and by extension create enough air to keep a person alive in a vacuum for (say) 10 minutes.
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 19, 2016 12:44:59 GMT
So: developing the idea above a bit further: how does this sound? - not sure how to work things like communication magic into this, but how does it look as a guideline? Magic level
| Typical damage / level of power
| 1 | Trivial: no damage: cantrips only
| 2 | Minor - kill a cat
| 3 | Small - kill a dog / 5 cats
| 4 | Average - kill a human / 5 dogs
| 5 | Large - kill a bear / 5 humans
| 6 | Significant - kill a troll / 5 bears
| 7 | Major - kill a giant / 5 trolls
| 8 | Massive - kill a dragon / 5 giants
| 9 | Insane
| 10 | Godlike |
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Post by Kristian on Mar 21, 2016 12:09:56 GMT
Sorry to derail things, but since I wasn't there last week (and missed the discussion) I was wondering if you've considered FATE. I don't know an awful lot about the game, but it seemed all the rage a little while back, and seems like a toolkit style game that can be used to create any setting in any genre (so a little like SW in that respect - but I think it's supposed to be a bit more freeform - but I could be wrong). It's also got a bit of a Yin/Yang thing going on (like in the feng shui game Andy run the once) as it uses fudge/fate dice ...i.e. you roll 4d6 (each of which has with two blank sides, two '+' sides, and two '-' sides) plus your skill (or aspect*). The pdf version is also a pay-what-you-want book ...so it's essentially free Anyway, it might be total crap for all I know, but people seemed to be exited about it when it came out. *I think these are essentially phrases you have on your character sheet like 'leave no man behind' or 'if brute force isn't working, you're not using enough' that can have both a positive or negative effect, depending on the circumstance.
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Post by Kristian on Mar 21, 2016 13:50:44 GMT
This guy explains it a bit better:
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 21, 2016 16:12:33 GMT
I will definitely check it out; have you played it before?
And sorry to start blathering on about it, assuming everyone would know what I was on about! - nothing is going to happen very quickly, so there's lots of time still before we start - and also therefore lots of time to discuss how we want it to work.
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Post by Kristian on Mar 21, 2016 17:09:23 GMT
Not played it myself, but like I say, there was a bit of a buzz about it a couple of years back (there may have been a kickstarter or similar for a new edition), and it does sound interesting (plus new systems are always fun to try out ). The next time I'm working on something that doesn't need my full attention (like drawing in the walls and floors of a dungeon map), I'll see if I can find an 'actual play' podcast (or similar) to listen too - so I can get a bit of a feel for how it plays.
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Post by pericles on Mar 24, 2016 18:20:34 GMT
Like all role players I have considered my own system. My conclusion is on a small human scale it is relatively easy to define a consistent system. When you start dealing with multiple scales it is best to work with concepts. Here are some scales Distance - Personal: Self, Touch (5 ft), near (step touch 10ft), Throw (30 – 50 ft), Long throw, Line of sight.
- Small Tactical: Personal, Furlong (220 yds), ¼ mile (440 yds), ½ mile (880 yds), 1 mile (1760 yds)
- Tactical: Short (Up to 1 day Travel), Medium (1-2 Days travel), Long (3-5 Days travel)
- Strategic: Everything else
Target - Personal: Self, 1 other
- Small Tactical: Group i.e. all or specified number within range up to Throw
- Tactical: Group all in range up to Long throw
- Large Tactical: Group all in range up to 1 mile
- Small Strategic: Group all in range up to ½ day travel
- Strategic: Group: all in range up to 1 Day Travel
The scales work with both technology and magic. A longbow or revolver has Small tactical range and Personal target. A machine gun or fireball has a small tactical effect at a small tactical distance. A communication device has or telepathy has any combination of Distance and Target. If you want to rank the power level of technology or magic simply add difficulties. A longbow or revolver has power 3 = Small tactical range (2) + Personal target (1). A machine gun or fireball has power 4 = small tactical effect (2) + a small tactical distance (2). If you want to differentiate damaging and non-damaging effects introduce creature toughness. Annihilating a small town of humans with a bomb needs power 6 = Human (1) + Personal distance (1) + Large Tactical (4). Of course most humans will be inside and thus armoured against most attack forms. Annihilating a single Behmouth with a single concentrated attack needs power 6 = Behmouth (4) + Personal distance (1) + Personal target (1). A God (your scale) could Annihilate a city of Behmouths (9) = Behmouth (4) + Personal distance (1) + Large Tactical target (4) The correspondance with your scale is uncanny and unintentional. But if it works ... My prefered method for duration is "Dramatically approriate"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 18:43:36 GMT
So: the magic system is this: You get 100 points to split between: - buying levels in your spheres of magic; - your mana pool - how much magical energy you can throw around - how much mana you regenerate each day. (you can decide what time of day your replenishment kicks in: keeping track of it on an hourly basis seems like too much hard work) The Mana issue would need a separate points allocation, wouldn't it? Because your 100 is going to give you (according to the points to levels outlined below) your 3 skills at level 7 and 1 at level 4. - or however else each person chooses to allocate them. So far I've come up with:- Persuasion (this includes charm but also, ability to persuade/sway someone into believing that someone else is to be hated.) Vindictiveness (random acts of revenge upto and including a painful death, but also girly things like weight gain or a nasty facial disfigurement. ) My ritual is my character astrally projects into a universe where she is more corporeal, with powers that have a more 3D effect. In this universe, she sigilises a flagon of the sacred DRICE potion, and consumes it, gaining 25 mana points. If needed, she adds a bag of the potent SINTGCASRCH , which brings her upto 50 mana points:) Is the aim of the game quasi-real world goals to fix our predicament, such as legal success, a new flat, job, etc, or something else?
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 26, 2016 19:34:06 GMT
Nope: your hundred points is for everything - your daily mana pool, your regen rate and your spheres: not forgetting you can only buy 1 sphere at 6 at character creation time. Making players make difficult choices between versatility and raw power is one of the fun parts of being a GM!
Once you have your pool amount that's how much spells measured in mana expenditure you can cast each day: make sense?
And the aim of the game is sheer survival... Hopefully whilst being true to your core principles... And don't forget that "Ragnorok" is the Viking / Norse apocalypse - not necessarily the end of the world, potentially the downfall of the old and a rebirth, but definitely with a lot of gods slinging insane levels of power around, and with definite world changing consequences.
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 26, 2016 19:43:35 GMT
Also: perhaps "ritual" is too limiting or specific: you could get mana in many, many ways: plain old sacrifice... Stealing it... Having it donated, clever magical hacks or effects: basically make it (in-game) plausible and something your spheres of magic is capable of and try and do it and see what happens...
And to clarify: this is no quasi real world... It is utterly real: you've been sent to it by a goddess for a very specific reason, to achieve something she needs doing, and once you are there that's it: you die here you die for real.
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Post by brumguvnor on Mar 26, 2016 19:53:12 GMT
And looking at your 2 ideas, I would simplify it and call them both simply different uses of Mind Control at level 6: you want to make someone do something that benefits you? - persuade them to take you in, feed and clothe you? - that's using mind control to persuade someone.
Conversely, you want to make someone do something that is utter social death? - like stand naked in the town square shouting that the duke is a tosser? - also mind control!
To actively control their luck, to make bad shit happen? That would be entropy control, or luck control...
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