Ragnarok

[brumguvnor]

"If only mining it for ideas" the man says! As if I would stoop to that! (He says... Heading off to check it out)

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2017 21:00:15 GMT brumguvnor said:

Luck though? Luck I like... A lot: with definite applications for pulling plot devices out of thin air when really needed.. And in this setting you might well need it... Badly!

Luck is genius

[pericles]

Feb 13, 2017 21:00:15 GMT brumguvnor said:

Dave: I've already explicitly separated force from energy and electromagnetism... It is now solely and specifically kinetic energy...

And as you've described it, null is exactly equivalent to force. My problem with null is the name and the concept and the vagueness of it... It is not really a college to me and has a very woolly concept... Right now the sphere of force woukd do exactly what you've described and would seem to me to be a better summary... But go with what you want.

But - you are trying to combine force with mind and force and space: that level of mental power is most definitely the realm of the mind sphere... I have no problem with you doing all 3 of these, but you are not getting the spheres of mind and force and space all for the price of one.

You are very powerful in your spheres which is why they need tight definitions and boundaries. Please don't forget: when your sphere is called to mind you have access to every single possible spell in that college. (With certain limits already discussed: no creating life or summoning unlimited quantities of - say - stone until level 7)

And don't try and equate stuff to D&D.. With space you couldn't just do "misty step" - you could teleport yourself anywhere you can see and anywhere you've been, as well as create portals and make space infinite for incoming ranged attacks and zero for outgoing ones. So - if I allowed "misty step" as part of "null" there would be nothing stopping you doing all of the other teleport spells.

Remember you have insta kill versus trolls at level 6 with no roll needed... And anything else you want to do be,ow that is easy: level 6 is arch-mage level don't forget.

Luck though? Luck I like... A lot: with definite applications for pulling plot devices out of thin air when really needed.. And in this setting you might well need it... Badly!

[Deleted]

Can we combine the spheres we have in spells, for instance Life and Matter= Animate Thing?

[pericles]

Computer is playing up I have no idea what I have posted or not posted.

Luck is ill defined. Null is a simple well defined concept of the empty set. Force is a newtonian concept Force = mass times acceleration.

Null goes beyond negation, opposition or abjuration, it is absolute nihilism. 

The discussion on the elemental sphere is as good a point to start as any. I will continue with mind control and telportation as examples

A level six mage has access to all spells in his sphere below his invoked level. The suggestion for elemental was level minus 4
Elemental consisted of four sub powers. Null is a duality being an infinite spectrum of sub-powers and only one power at the same time. It is simpler to think of null affecting the world via a locus. The reason for using a locus / conduit is to avoid "I need to purchase each and every sub-power nullify-X for the same purchase price as the full power X"

For null I suggest
Maximum effect: Where there is a strong locus "My mind & body", "My physical environment I percieve through my senses" that null can nullify/uncreate any equal or lesser object power or influence.
Minimum effect: Where there is no locus "I have no experiance and no way of experiancing that to be nulled" I cannot affect that to be nulled in any way.

Where there is a moderate locus "I have a common experiance and perception of an object or power" I can affect the power or object at power minus n where n is to be decided
In a world where mental and spiritual attack is not un-common I would have a moderate locus based on common experiance which has been shared. Before having direct experiance I may only have a taught experiance and a weak percieved locus see below.

Where I have a weak locus "I experiance only though my power or imagination" I can affect at power minus N where N > n.
A level six space archmage can teleport any where they know. A lowly talented level 1 not quite apprentice may be able to use a cantrip teleporting an object from a known nearby location to an empty hand. A level 2 Apprentice may be able to emulate an effect not dissimilar to a misty step. An archage nihilist may be able to percieve the emptyness in her immediate surroundings and nullify the impinging dimension/path between one side of the emptyness and another before rapidly stepping to a far side of the perceived emptyness. If there were no path through the emptyness such as a locked with shuttered doors and windows there would be no means of travel (without removing intervening objects).


Luck is obviously Tymora of the forgotten realms. Null as an extreme instance of Shar from the forgotten realms.

[brumguvnor]

Spheres can definitely be combined: if you spend the mana to bring both of them to mind you can combine effects from each as you see fit. Or even 3 different ones at once. In fact... - I can see your lives depending on combining spheres really quite urgently this being quite important.

And I was about to suggest null affecting the domains of multiple spheres but at a discounted power level... - as long as we agree in advance what it can do...

Don't forget though- only 1 sphere can be at level 6 at creation... So if you are working with sphere at an effective level of (6-3) then killing some of the bigger beasts with one shot with the Null sphere will not be possible...

Let me think about it...

[brumguvnor]

Right then: have a look at version 3 of the rules: this time saved in plain .doc format because I can upload them here quickly: now moving on to cover utility magic - that is every use of magic that is not in a life or death combat situation, building on Dave's idea of combining all of the difficulty factors together.

One thing to stress: you can not contribute mana to another mage without some level of magic as a sphere and you definitely cannot create magic items without magic as a sphere.

Attachments:

Ragnarok v3.doc (877.5 KB)

[Deleted]

Here's what I've come up with so far for Life and Matter.  We can discuss any overlap with anyone choosing protect/armour, which is the first overlap I can think of.

Healing (Life L6)



Heal

Cure/Group cure wounds

Protect life/ protect group

Invincibility/Group invincibility

Strengthen

Resilience/resistance

Liven up/restore

Stabilize

Food and water (necessary for life)

Make food/water safe

Feast

Talk to dead people

Harming (Life L6)



Harm

Weaken
Wound

Move person (dominate body)

Death Threat (frighten)

Kill (attempt)


Matter L5



Create small items

Make w raw materials

Find object

Mend

Increase/shrink

Hide in stuff

(‘meld’)

Make armour with stuff

Break stuff





Not until a level or two up:-



Resurrect (L7)          Make inanimate (L6)

Kill Group                Animate

                             Disintegrate

[brumguvnor]

I like all that: just need to use the difficulty table to work out how much you can do - what ranges and so on.

Only thing I would say - keep it as the "Life" or even "Flesh" sphere: that would allow you to do things like shapeshift... - for example - make your own body faster or stronger - or make it so you get more nourishment out of smaller amounts of food - or that you are better insulated against the cold. Shapeshifting is not necessarily all about the "I grow 10 feet tall and get 2 extra pairs of arms with claws on them and my new tail spits venomed darts" - it can be small, subtle changes to help you survice in extreme conditions.

How useful would it be to be able to grow fur when it is arctic conditions?!

And "flesh" as a sphere absolutely means you can heal yourself and others as needed.

And all I would say with matter is: you cannot create or summon matter - stone, earth, water whatever it is - until level 7. Also - what you are thinking here reminds me a lot of transmute - which would be a better title than matter - because as previously discussed I don't want people to take a sphere that can do exactly what another sphere can do - and then more. Think about the sphere of stone / earth / metal: it can do a LOT of what you want here... - without it getting stretched to cover ALL matter, you know?

And: final warning: are you CERTAIN you don't want to take "magic" as a sphere? - even at level 1 or 2?

[brumguvnor]

Also while I think about it - would anyone be able to print off the D20 Modern rulebook at work and bring it in? - I would be happy to pay a tenner for time and trouble if anyone could!

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2017 11:41:42 GMT brumguvnor said:

Also - what you are thinking here reminds me a lot of transmute - which would be a better title than matter - because as previously discussed I don't want people to take a sphere that can do exactly what another sphere can do - and then more. Think about the sphere of stone / earth / metal: it can do a LOT of what you want here... - without it getting stretched to cover ALL matter, you know?

And: final warning: are you CERTAIN you don't want to take "magic" as a sphere? - even at level 1 or 2?

Heal/twat was my priority.  Matter I really can't get passionate about.

So- Life (heal/twat) at level 6
Magic at level 4 (as I said via FB, this or something like it is one of the key characteristics of my character)
Matter at Level 1
Charm at Level 1

Anything else to make equal levels of mana/refresh (sorry not got chart with the numbers in front of me) x

[brumguvnor]

OK - so: Life sphere at level 6 costs 22: magic sphere at level 4 costs 11; and 2 level 1 spheres cost 2 each, for a total of 37 in your spheres, leaving 63 - split evenly would be 26 points for your daily mana pool and your regen rate with 1 point left over...

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2017 13:55:51 GMT brumguvnor said:

OK - so: Life sphere at level 6 costs 22: magic sphere at level 4 costs 11; and 2 level 1 spheres cost 2 each, for a total of 37 in your spheres, leaving 63 - split evenly would be 26 points for your daily mana pool and your regen rate with 1 point left over...

My 'OCD' struggles with that  Will think about it some more but something along those lines

Will I get nearer 30/30 if Matter level 2 :/ ?  Confused face

[gilbo]

I'm a bit confused. Having looked back through the thread this is a brief summary:

I would like to be able to shapeshift and polymorph objects.
Kath would like healing/death powers and maybe some creation and mind control.
Kris would like to control animals, plants and weather.
Dave would like to stop people doing these things? But also teleport and do other stuff.

It has been suggested that we could have a 'flesh' sphere which encompasses shapeshift, polymorph, healing and possibly death. This seems a bit too much to me and overlaps Kath's and mine and Kris's.
A 'life' sphere has also been mentioned.
'Matter' encompasses inanimate object control but also overlaps with stone, water, etc.

I know you are against this James but I really think we need a list.

Something like:

Fire
Stone
Nature
Flesh

Force
Magic
Life
Space
Shape
Mind

[brumguvnor]

Not against it - I just don't want to be prescriptive in what you are able to take you know - I am trying to be open ended without one person having a clever idea that encompasses the powers of 3 or 4 other spheres... - but saying that let's start getting really explicit over what can and can't done with what sphere though.. - I will add detail to all of the spheres you list in v4.

One thing to note - every sphere should be able to do damage and kill the things as previously listed - how is up to you...

And don't forget - when you take these spheres you are very powerful in them... - limited only by the "difficulty table" I have put together in version 3 of the rules. So to me, the flesh sphere should definitely include manipulating all flesh, and shapechanging yourself - and causing wounds on other things... - remind me what you wanted and how that overlaps... - do you mean it sounds overpowered compared to a sphere such as animal or plant control? - even though those powers would let you get strong companions loyally serving you? - and plant control would let you feed people even in the depths of a magical winter?

Should the other powers be beefed up in comparison do you think?